is a liar. (Applause.) That is what twisting does as much as anything else. It undermines the confidence in the agent's integrity and honesty when he goes out to talk to the public. Now, you may not like that kind of talk, but it is a fact. (Great applause.)

There are two or three things that bring that about. Formerly it was the lash of the company to produce results. "Meyers, you are writing half a million, you ought to write a million. You get out a bulletin and you ought to start at the head," with the result that I try to do everything I can to get the other fellow to change his policy. It is my business to go out and protect the widows and orphans and talk insurance. Now, I go out and say, "You have $10,000, you take $10,000 with me," and that is done boys, and you know it. We won't press the actual feelings that you have in regard to the matter. And there is a lot of you boys have the same feeling in regard to the matter I have. I don't care for competition. I am with the company that I am willing to show my goods and if I show my goods honestly and fairly and squarely and show the people what they are buying, I don't care about the fellow that comes around and wants to twist it. It is up to you to show the goods right, to help to create confidence in public opinion. (Applause.) Now, I would like to hear some more expressions by some of the rest of you. I don't want to occupy the floor. My time is about up. (Applause.)

PRESIDENT EDWARDS Mr. Meyers has only used three and a half minutes, but I think you will agree it is the best three and a half minutes we have had. (Applause.) Do you want to occupy the rest of your time, Mr. Meyers?

MR. J. J. JACKSON, Cleveland, Ohio-Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen: I should not feel I was doing my duty to my profession

if I do not lift my voice against the pernicious habit of twisting whenever the opportunity presents itself. I have a great deal higher regard for the man who is a professional thief, who enters my house in the night and steals my chattels, than I have for the man who comes to my office in broad daylight and assumes to be my friend and by his talk and reasoning persuades me to give up my chattels and buy his wares. The saddest thing of life to me is to lose the confidence of a friend. You can lose your money and get over it all right, but when you lose your friend your money does not count for anything. Now, when a man goes to one of my policyholders and asks him to change, if I have

not sold my goods well enough, as the last speaker said, and by any

argument he may bring up to induce that gentleman to change, there is one of two things created in that man's mind; first, that I was a liar and did not treat him fairly, or else I was a stupid fool and did not know my business.

I feel that the fault is with us largely in the twisting business. I feel as agents we don't take time enough to explain our proposition, and after a policy is written I make it a rule and demand it if it is possible that I may have an audience with the insured and the beneficiary, if it is his wife, that I may go over the subject with them carefully. That is my own personal experience. But the twister is with us in Cleveland good and plenty. I think the Association movement in Cleveland has done much and can do more to wipe it out. I feel that we shall successfully do that. But we can never do the good that we ought to do in a community, until we bear the same relation to the community that the doctor does and the lawyer. You don't like your lawyer or your doctor when he comes; you show him your tongue; he feels your pulse. The average man when he meets the agent says, "I have got all the insurance I care for, thank you." He does not think it any disreputable thing to tell you a wrong story. You are in the same position as the doctor who puts his pills out on the desk, the black and the red and the white, and you say, "I will take some of your red pills." If it does not cure you you cannot blame the doctor. In order to write insurance and have it stick, we have got to have the confidence of the man, we must administer the medicine as faithfully and as honestly as does the physician. (Applause.) In one mail, during the great turmoil of 1906, I found on my desk one morning nine letters asking advice what they should do with their policies which were in the mix-up. I have yet the first policy to twist or to advise a man. (Applause.) I believe as Mr. Drew said, I would like to see every company or every general agent stamp in red ink across the folder or policy itself, "Don't listen to rumors about this policy. Call up your agent. Let him answer the question first before you decide." I thank you, Mr. President. (Applause.)

MR. L. B. LEIGH, Arkansas: I think the question under discussion is too large to be disposed of fully and satisfactorily by either of the little words "yes" or "no," without qualification. It is said that a man said to a philosopher once, "Is life worth living?" The philosopher replied, "Well, that depends on the liver;" and the man said, "Well, do you mean the liver itself or the liver himself." He said, "Well, you can take it either way." (Laughter.) The point may be illustrated possibly better by an incident in a court room in Arkansas in which a negro was a witness. You who have had any experience with courts know that in some cases the witness is required to answer the question "yes" or "no." without qualification or explanation, but in this case the negro refused to do so, and attempted each time to explain. The lawyer finally lost patience with him and appealed to the court,“The witness refuses to answer. I want him to answer 'yes' or 'no'." The court said "Answer that question 'yes' or 'no.'" He looked up to the judge and said, "I can't

You

answer that truthfully 'yes' of 'no' unless I can spread a little." can't answer this truthfully unless you spread a little? Specifically, yes. Generally, no, because I take it there is not a man within the sound of my voice that does not know a man insured in certain companies he would be justified in twisting. That is, he would do that man a benefit to get him out of that company anyway he could. So that I say specifically "yes," and generally "no." I never twisted one in my life, but I do know of cases where I think I would confer a great favor on my friends and acquaintances if I did a little twisting.

MR. IRA B. JACKSON. Denver, Col.-In connection with the subject of twisting, I don't believe there is any time we are ever justified in doing that which is generally known among insurance men as twisting insurance of legal reserve companies. Now, he speaks about notice to the policyholders. I want to say we have found it very effective to put a little paster on all contracts from my office," Remember, if an agent from a rival company tries to induce you to change or discontinue your policy, he is working against your interest and only for his profits. Before you give credence to anyone who may seek to destroy your confidence in the company, write to the undersigned for an explanation."

Now, that is a very effective thing. It does not cost you much. It is a notice to a policyholder of course, and he exercises

some caution before he allows himself to be influenced. There is no doubt of one thing, and my experience is this, if ever a man twists a policy (I don't admit being guilty, however,) it is just as sure that retribution will come to him as to some other one, and he will lose just as much as he has gained. There is no injustice to the public. He is doing the man an injustice and thereby robbing him. I don't think there is anything further I can add to my friend's suggestion. I submit this paster to you as a very good thing to attach to your policy

contracts.

MR. GEORGE H. OLMSTED, Cleveland, O.-In the beginning of this discussion, the matter of twisting seemed to have been made light of the question whether there was such a thing, and I just want to present a fact or two and put it up to you whether there is such a thing as twisting. Most of the policyholders who have large cash values in the city of Cleveland have been receiving communications from an agent of one of the reputable large companies, big reserve companies, stating to them that he could show them how to get twenty-five per cent. more insurance than they now had and have it cost them less money, and seeking an interview. Now, if that does not indicate twisting, what does it indicate? I don't think there

is any denying the fact there are certain representatives of certain companies in this country that are approaching policyholders having

large cash values and suggesting either the buying of the reserve on their policy and taking out new ones in their own company, or surrendering their policies and taking policies in the companies thus represented. Now, I think that is the phase of twisting that the association wants to sit down on, and sit down hard. (Applause.) It is not a question of twisting from some assessment company and the like of that that we are talking about. It is the class of agents who go forth to twist from good companies to their own, who may represent also good companies. And it is that class of agents that we want to put the stamp on and let them feel it. That is what I want to say, Mr. Chairman. MR. TOLMAN-Thirteen years ago this question was absolutely settled by resolution. (Laughter.) Legislation cannot settle this question. Discussions cannot settle this question. The only thing that can absolutely settle this question is our own conscience. (Applause.) For nearly twenty-five years I have tried to develop unassuming, unmitigated, modest cheek. (Laughter.) But I have never had the affrontery to go to a man and ask him to pay me double commission on one simple contract. (Applause.)

Mr. President, when you were sleeping at your hotel the other morning, I arose in the early morning and left my little hotel, the "Hotel Telford," to see the sun rise in the most horrible, strangest, wildest place in the whole world, the Grand Canyon of Arizona. I went to sleep on the bench and had a dream, and I saw in the distance the clouds trying to obscure the beautiful sunlight, and I looked down in that awful chasm below, and I saw the strange colorings, the red and yellow, and overhead the beautiful velvet blue, and I saw four words plainly printed on the horizon in distance two hundred and ten miles off," Press towards the mark." We know what our duty is on twisting. We know what our duty is on writing policies. And all this talk is unsettling and tending to elevate our pent up feelings, but the fact remains that we must live up to the ideals of simple, plain, honest business and then our profession, the most wonderful, the most philanthropic in the world will be called blessed and honorable by all humanity. (Applause.)

MRS. FLORENCE E. SHAAL, Boston, Mass.-Mr. President, my Coworkers and Lady Friends: I can hardly restrain myself from just saying a word in regard to this matter. Mr. Meyers voiced my opinion to the very letter. But I want to say to you that we women in the field never knew the definition of rebating until the investigation some two or three years ago. I have fifty women in my own department, and we never knew what twisting meant. Mr. Meyers says every man of

you knows but he didn't say every woman. (Applause.) We know that rebating means to give part of our commission away. We work too hard to give ours away. (Applause.) I would advise you gentlemen that are having such trouble with twisting and rebaters to solicit women. They know nothing about it. (Applause.)

MR. MEYERS-I will consume the minute and a half left and perhaps a minute more. In finishing my talk I did not give the second half of the reason, and one that may be excusable for attempting at the time to change the policy. Under our present conditions we have not much to holler about the big field. A man when he knows his family ought to have $1,500 at least to sustain them, and sees that the easiest course for him to get it is to go after the man that has already been educated for insurance, rather than go out and educate the new source, he follows the line of least resistance, and is very apt to fall by the wayside and undermine his own ability and energy by twisting. What is responsible for that? Before we had the Armstrong law we could rebate, Mr. President; those who had companies who would ransom all that possibly was in sight. Since the investigation self preservation knows no law they say, and the new law is also partially responsible if not greatly so for the present panic in regard to twisting. We hear more of it than we ever did before. As I stated, the line of least resistance is getting a policyholder to change. Now, I want to state one point in regard to the statement made here about the basis of good faith on the floor in regard to changing assessment policies. By the way, there is but one assessment company left, and they are hanging on by the skin of their teeth. It is not anything to gloat over, it is something to be sad about, because men will be disappointed. They can't usually get somewhere else. There is only one left but even when you ask a man to drop a policy in an association or fraternal order and I want to say that some of these fraternal orders are doing good work and should be encouraged,—how do you know but that man may be dead inside of a week, and what a Godsend it would have been if he had that as well as the additional insurance you wrote him instead of telling him to drop it. Gentlemen, write additional insurance. (Applause.) I don't know whether the convention will endorse my views or not, but I am going to offer this resolution. It will be referred, I presume to the Executive Committee, and will come up later:

"Whereas, the twisting of a policyholder from one reliable company to any other undermines the confidence of the insured in all and discredits the work of honest insurance representatives, and it is universally acknowledged that it almost universally means also a loss to the policyholder instead, and is conceded that it undermines the company's stability, thereby injuring all other policyholders, therefore, be it

Resolved, that this National Convention of Life Underwriters places itself unequivocally on record as condemning all such practices as dishonest."

MR. JAY DWIGGINS-I rise to second the resolution, and to heartily support the resolution as read by Mr. Meyers.