far as he had heard of the debate, he was in I that as this was an instance of a striking favour of the proposition of his noble Friend, and salient character, they ought to allow because he thought that the limitation of such a one to act in a certain degree on forty-two years or the life meant, in the their opinions, and mould them accordmajority of the cases, the life and nothing ingly; and when he mentioned such cases beyond. If he was not mistaken, the best as those of Wordsworth and Southey, he works of a great number of authors were must insist that those men were particolar published when they were between twenty and signal instances of the defects of the and thirty-five; against the names cited by present system. He had only now to conthe right hon. Gentleman, he would set gratulate the House on the general tone many writers of our own time, Byron, Ro- of the debate, with the exception of the gers, Campbell, Dickens, Shelly, Keats, remarks of the hon. Member for Finsbury : and others; therefore, by the operation of and to thank the right hon. Member for the right hon. Gentleman's plan, the authors Edinburgh, for having given them so would be left very much where they were agreeable an alternative as voting either now; and if an author went to sell his copy- for him or for the noble Lord. He thought right under that plan, he did not think that that the spirit in which that debate had been he could get a shilling more for it than now. carried on would have a beneficial effect on A bookseller would give no more for the the country, and do something to dispel the extended time of the right hon. Gentleman's opinion that literature met with but very plan than he gave now. As far, therefore, little regard in the House of Commons, as to the personal interests of authors and give reason to hope that although in themselves, the right hon. Gentleman con- this country literature was less honoured ferred no boon whatever. What, then, than in others, yet that we were now getwould be the operation of his plan with ting into the right way. The favour with respect to the family of the author? He which literature was practically regarded must say, he thought that this point had in this country might be appreciated from not been put forward with sufficient promi- the fact, that a sum of money was raised nence in this debate; but, in truth, the annually for the support of decayed literary great evil which they were called upon to men of hardly the amount required to keep prevent was, authors leaving their families a pack of hounds. The law of France was totally unprovided for. Certainly, the right somewhat different, and to that he and his hon. Gentleman offered a high premium bon. Friends wished to approximate here. for the celibacy of literary men, and if But the French government, not content they were to have no friends and no one with the present state of their law, wished to leave the fruits of their labours to, no to extend the term of copyright, and they doubt the right hon. Gentleman's plan had introduced a plan with that object, might be less objectionable. The hon. which had passed one Chamber, and was Member for Finsbury had accused his only rejected in the other by a small manoble Friend of being led away by senti- jority. Now, in France this respect for mental tales, but when the hon. Member literary men worked well. It produced talked of sentimental tales, he must have harmony between literary and political life. heard the tale of a man of the purest and The historian of the Civilization of Eu highest life who was distinguished in many rope was the Prime Minister of France; walks of literature, who was not only a the historian of the Revolution was leader poet, but a distinguished historian and a of the Opposition; the historian of the distinguished critic, and who had received wars of the Fronde was Ambassador to from his country a great literary honour, the Court of St. James; the historian of such as literary honours were in this the Dukes of Burgundy was Ambassador country-the hon. Member must have at St. Petersburgh. He must repeat that heard that this man was at present be- the tone taken by the right hon. Member reft of his great mind, and that his family for Edinburgh, was matter of great conwere very dependent for their future com- gratulation to the House and to the counfort on the event of the debate of that try, and he hoped, that if he voted with night. Such was the pitiable condition his noble Friend the right hon. Gentleman in which this great and excellent man would not take it ill, but would believe was left. He knew that it was some- that it was a friendly competition between times objectionable to single out particular the two parties, and, whichever conquered, instances, and then to attempt to build no doubt the result would be most benegeneral positions upon them; but he thought ficial to the country. Clause 1, and 2, agreed to. The third clause being put as follows:"And be it enacted, that the copyright in every book which shall, after the passing of this act, be published in the lifetime of its author, shall endure for the natural life of such author, and for the further term of twenty-five years, commencing at the time of his death, and shall be the property of such author and his assigns: provided always, that in no case shall the whole term be less than twenty-eight years; and that the copyright in every book which shall be published after the death of its author shall endure for the term of thirty years from the first publication thereof, and shall be the property of the proprietor of the manuscript from which such book shall be first published, and his assigns." it would not, in his opinion, be found as Mr. Macaulay said, it was here that he wished to propose his amendment. Before doing so, he need hardly tell the House that he did not by any means concur in the views stated by the hon. Member for Finsbury. He should not have felt himself justified in making reference to the works of a man of genius in the spirit of that hon. Gentleman. He entertained a more proper respect for genius, and for the venerable persons of whom the hon. Member had allowed certain disrespectful expressions to escape him. He would not detain the House with any further exposition of his amendment, but he really must say, that having listened with attention to what had fallen from hon. Gentlemen on the other side, he had not heard any refutation of the arguments he had used. He had not heard any arguments showing that what he proposed was a smaller boon than what his noble Friend proposed. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by moving an amendment to the effect" that the copyright of every book should endure for the terms of forty-two years, or for the natural life of the author." Lord Mahon said, that he was desirous of stating briefly the reasons which induc-tection to works of most merit. But if even ed him to prefer the clause as it stood, to the amendment of it proposed by his right hon. Friend; but in the first place, he must say, that he had listened with almost unmingled pleasure to the speech of the right hon. Gentleman, and, though they differed as to the details, he was glad to find that on the main principle-that of giving encouragement to literature, they were now entirely agreed. As to the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman, he did not think that the boon of forty-two years would, according to his statement, afford protection in all cases to the best works; it were, what was the value of that principle in practice? The right hon. Gentleman had laid great stress on the case of Dryden's early plays, and of the enormous term of protection which they would receive under the bill as it stood. But that protection was merely nominal since no one sought for those early plays separately and by themselves, but valued them only as part of Dryden's collected works. And this led him (Lord Mahon) to a main objection against the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman that it was hostile to complete editions. For instance, let them take the case of Milton; his Comus would have been free from copyright under the right hon. Gentleman's clause, much sooner than the Paradise Lost." But all those who admired Comus would wish still more to possess Paradise Lost, and therefore an edition comprising both would still be preferred. Works of this sort came out slowly and by degrees, and if the copyright of the different works of the same author was made to determine at different periods, the tendency must be, to prevent the publication of complete editions. Upon the whole, he was inclined to think that twenty-five years from the death of the author would meet the justice of the case. They were agreed as to the main object of enabling men of literary merit in the decline of life to make, or hope that they had made, some provision for their families. He fully admitted, however, that great benefit would be derived even from the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman, and so unwilling was he to have him as an opponent, that if he were prepared to adopt, with his term of forty-two years, a diminished term after life, he would willingly accede to such a proposal. felt inclined to act. Having heard the speeches of his noble Friend and of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Macaulay), he thought the argument of the right hon. Gentleman as to a preference to be given to a certain period of forty-two years, or the life of the author, was an argument which carried conviction with it. The later works of an author were usually superior to his earlier productions, as the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Macaulay) had established by reference only to the two names of Dryden and Pope; it was in the later works, that the public had most interest. At the same time he admitted the weight of the argument founded upon the necessity for an author to provide for his family after death, and on this account he should be glad, if possible, to combine the two propositions, and besides the forty-two years of the amendment to give an author's family a right for seven years after his death. If, however, the question were only between the proposition of his noble Friend and the amendment of the right hon. Gentleman, he must vote for the latter. Mr. Macaulay could not consent to adopt the suggestion of the right hon Sir R. Peel did not wish to give a vote Baronet, and thought that the arguments without stating generally the opinion to he had advanced all bore against granting which he had come upon the arguments he an additional term at the end of life. had heard upon the subject. He had always Neither did he feel (what the right hon. felt great doubts upon it. He had not Baronet had felt) the weight of the arguhitherto given a vote upon the question, ment founded upon the provision for the but had resolved to listen with great im- family of an author. In forty-two years partiality to the arguments on both sides, an author might be able to make a saving and then to form his own conclusion upon for his family, and to give a term afterthose arguments. His impression hitherto wards could only apply to some great had been, that with respect to the vast standard work in which the public would majority of cases, the existing protection have a deep interest. Having the enjoywas sufficient. There might be cases with ment of a valuable right for so many years, regard to works of authors in which some a prudent man ought to be able to make additional protection for literature might be necessary. He had always listened with some provision for his children, and to favour to that suggestion which proposed give a term after death was rather offering that in special cases exceptions might be an encouragement to expenditure. Already made; and that in the case of great and the disposition of literary men might be distinguished men, where a peculiar hard-considered somewhat too inconsiderate of ship might arise if the term of the copyright were not extended, some public authority should have the power to extend it. Taking that view of the case, he had moved for a return of the cases in which the Privy Council had extended patent rights. As there appeared to be a tolerably general acquiescence as to the principle upon which the House ought to proceed, and that there ought to be some legislative measure on the subject, he should not press the views upon which he had hitherto the right hon. Baronet would render them the future, but the course suggested by even more careless than at present. With any regard to his own convictions, he could not, therefore, consent to the alteration proposed. Mr. Williams Wynn would not enter into any controversy respecting the merits of a distinguished, respected, and venerable living poet. Allowing the lines quoted to be as bad as the hon. Member for Finsbury contended that they were, it works "which the world would not willingly let die." On books that were merely worthless, and meant only for the day, the measure could have no effect; they would still be written, still be bought, and still in a short time handed over to the trunkmaker, or the cheesemonger: to them such a bill as this would be (as a friend of his had well illustrated it) like a license to sell mackarel after it had ceased to be fit for human food. He hoped that the conclusion of this discussion would be the uniting of the two propositions before the committee, and that each party would be willing to concede something, where so much might be gained by concession. could have no bearing on the question; the object was to provide better for the writers of good poetry and of good books -books of a permanent character. The hon. Member for Finsbury had complained that authors now looked to money, whereas they formerly looked to fame. He did not know the time when "empty praise" was sought without some regard to "solid pudding." All authors must look for remuneration, and if in a former day they were more disinterested, it ought to be recollected that the circumstances of the times were now different. The rewards of authorship in the reign of Elizabeth, for instance, were of a different kind; no doubt authors wrote then, as now, for money, but they were also remunerated Lord John Russell wished to explain, in other ways, and the instances were in a few words, why he should vote for not unfrequent where poets had obtained the proposal of the noble Viscount, and public employments. Spenser was not against the amendment of his right hon. twenty when he was first engaged in the Friend. The general feeling of the comservice of the State, and other poets, not mittee seemed all one way, with the exof equal, but still of great distinction, had ception of the hon. Member for Finsbury, also been selected for public reward. and whether one course were adopted or Shakspeare, to be sure, had derived his the other, either way a considerable beneemoluments from other sources. It was, fit would be conferred upon literature. however, probable that he never received As he had said, in principle he concurred a shilling from a bookseller for any of his most with the noble Lord, and the arguplays. On the contrary, he would have ment which had carried conviction to the given publishers money not to print his mind of the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. popular works, because the printing of Peel) had failed to produce the same effect them lessened his profits at the theatre. upon his mind. He had no doubt of the Yet profits, and large profits too, there correctness of the facts, and that, looking was no doubt that he did obtain. Shaks- at the literature of this and of other counpeare, therefore wrote for money, though tries, men's greatest works would be found it was not money paid in the usual way to have been produced late in life. On in which authors in our day were remu- that point the position of his right hon. nerated. Say what you will about fame Friend was unassailable; but though the -"that last infirmity of noble minds" statement might be true, it did not follow and its influence upon authors, nobody that it was a sufficient ground for legiscould dispute that the desire to procure lation: on the contrary, it seemed to him pecuniary emolument had been the incen- rather too refined a ground-it was too tive with many great authors to produce refined for Parliament to say, as a reason their most valuable works. Look at the for legislating for the extension of copycase of Dr. Johnson: why did he under-right, that it appeared to it that most take the Lives of the Poets, a work of the highest rank in its class, yet with notorious and glaring defects? He undertook the work because a bookseller came to him and offered him a large sum of money for writing it. With regard to the two proposals, that of his noble Friend and the amendment of the right hon. Gentleman, he was happy to see so strong a disposi tion on the part of the House to combine both. He hoped that this course would be taken, and that an additional motive would thus be given for the production of authors had written their greatest works late in life. It seemed to him much better to proceed upon the simple principle of giving a copyright for twenty-five or twentyeight years after the publication of an author's work. At the same time, he much lamented that there should be any division of opinion, and he wished that his right hon. Friend would give way, and consent to the small concession of seven years after the death of an author. The cases would, no doubt, be rare where it would be any boon; it could only apply to works Protheroe, E. of the highest merit, the author of which | Praed, W. T. Sir R. Peel repeated, that he should Mr. Aglionby reminded the House, that there was a third party, at the head of which was the hon. Member for Finsbury, who thought, that for the sake of the public nothing should be done. Such was his opinion also, and as he looked upon the amendment as the least evil of the two, he should vote for it. The committee divided on the question that, the words" for the further term of twenty-five years" stand part of the clause:-Ayes 56; Noes 68;-Majority Vane, Lord H. TELLERS. List of Mahon, Visct. Inglis, Sir R. H. the NOES. Lindsay, H. H. Aglionby, H. A. Ainsworth, P. Listowel, Earl of Masterman, J. Mitcalfe, H. Hardinge,rt.hn. Sir H. Thornely, T. Knatchbull, right hon. Words rejected. Wilshere, W. Wood, B. TELLERS. Macaulay, rt.hn. T.B. Evans, W. Lord Mahon moved to insert in the clause the words, "and for the further term of seven years, commencing at the time of the author's death." Mr. Macaulay could not consent to the proposal, and should again divide. The committee divided on the question, that the words be added:-Ayes 91; Noes 33;-Majority 58. Acton, Col. List of the AYES. Dick, Q. D'Israeli, B. Egerton, Lord F. Estcourt, T. G. B. Milnes, R. M. Fielden, J. Napier, Sir C. Adare, Visct. Ferrand, W. B. O'Brien, A. S. Ainsworth, P. Allix, J. P. Fox, C. R. Arbuthnott, hon. H. Broadley, H. Palmer, R. Pechell, Capt. Baskerville, T. B. M. Blackstone, W. S. Botfield, B. |