abolished some offices, and reduced the value of others; but they did not allow themselves to extend their reform beyond a prudential and constitutional line of conduct; and what cannot be too closely attended to, they effected no change nor modification whatever, without the aid of incontrovertible evidence, and the assistance of positive fact. They wisely lopped off whatever was proved to be superfluous, and they made reductions to the amount of many thousand pounds. To them were added savings by the commissioners of his Majesty's treasury, which were confirmed by the vote of parliament. But when they came to investigate the offices held under the exchequer, and proceeded to take into their consideration the nature of the tenure by which sinecure places were held, they did not think fit entirely to lop them off. The tellers of the exchequer, and several other offices, were retained and recognized by the resolution of parliament as necessary to be continued. Such was the opinion of the right honourable gentleman who proposed the reform, and such were the sentiments even of some gentlemen whom I now see over against me. A considerable reduction was then also effected in different offices of the customs, while some were entirely dropped; and, with respect to subordinate employments, large additional savings were made. I have now to observe, that, in all these retrenchments, the house proceeded on the general and acknowledged principle of remuneration for public services which I have already stated; and of such weight was that principle, that even Mr. Burke himself, though animated with the most enthusiastic zeal to carry his plan into execution, was on every occasion ready to recognize not only the wisdom, but the necessity of adopting it. I maintain, Sir, that sinecure offices are given in the nature of a freehold tenure. Parliament has expressly said, they will respect them as freehold property: and if, in answer to this solemn declaration, it is urged, that parliament may rescind their former resolutions, I say they may, by a parity of reasoning, destroy every kind of property in the country. But to

dwell any longer on this kind of argument would be too absurd to merit attention; and I have only to observe, that we ought not to lose sight, even for an instant, of those grand principles which lead to, and are inseparable from, the administration of public justice. I repeat, Sir, it is my sincere and earnest wish, that the house should ascertain the particular offices which may be paid beyond the duties annexed to them, and beyond the trust and responsibility which attach to them. But until that great and necessary measure takes place, you cannot proceed to retrench or to lop off.

I must once more entreat the attention of the house, to the nature of the honourable gentleman's motion, and to the time in which it is proposed. The tendency of it is completely included in the instruction of which I have already given a general statement, and which I have given notice I should move for the direction of the committee, and it is brought forward at the very moment when a general investigation is set on foot with respect to the whole finance of the country, and with a view of ascertaining a plan for controlling the public expenditure. If therefore, Sir, it should be the opinion of the house to refer to the committee the subject of the honourable gentleman's motion, as part of the general inquiry with which it was intended they should be entrusted, it would be an easy matter, if the words of the instruction were thought too general, to introduce particular terms that might peculiarly specify it.

On these grounds I oppose the motion, convinced as I am, that were I to agree to it, the public could derive no benefit from it, and that I myself should become a party in the disappointment, and in the delusion of the people: I therefore move the previous question.

March 23, 1797.

Mr Fox, in pursuance of a previous notice, this day submitted to the House the following resolution:

"That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, that his Majesty will be graciously pleased to take into his royal consideration the disturbed state of his kingdom of Ireland, and to adopt such healing and lenient measures as may appear to his Majesty's wisdom best calculated to restore tranquillity, and to conciliate the affections of all descriptions of his Majesty's subjects in that kingdom to his Majesty's person and government." The motion being seconded by Sir Francis Burdett, Mr. PITT rose:

Sir-However generally the terms of the motion of the right honourable gentlemen are couched, for an address to his Majesty, it is utterly impossible for any man to form his judgment on the merits of it, unless by proceeding to separate it from the va rious and collateral topics which he has thought proper to introduce, and without which the proposed address would, in reali ty, be indistinct and unnecessary. He has, in the early part of his speech, developed a subject to which I most seriously desire to call the attention of the house. The right honourable gentleman, who has made a speech on the whole system of the Irish legislature, who has argued at large upon the principles and frame of it, who has considered in a very ample manner its aptitude to make laws, and who has gone at length into the disposition of the people, with respect to the practical effect of these laws, began by reminding us, when he stated to the House the discontents now existing in Ireland, that it was necessary to have recourse to that period when we recognized and fully established the complete independence of the Irish legislature, as it might be known whether we gave that independence as a boon or a right -whether that measure was a concession to Ireland. There is one certain point in which we must all coincide by having recourse to that period, and the truth of which the right honourable gentleman himself cannot controvert-that whether the establishment of the independence of Ireland was a concession or a

recognition on our part, it was putting Ireland in the absolute possession of independence in point of fact. He had himself, on former occasions, fully admitted and acknowledged that important truth, and to oppose it would tend to shake the authority of the parliament of Great Britain.

But, Sir, I beg leave to ask in what parliament of Ireland was it that he recognized the independence of the legislature of that country, and the necessity of which he then urged with sq much force? Was it one formed on a more extensive frame than that which now exists? Did it include more persons attached to the Roman catholic interest of Ireland than it does now, or was it more calculated to give satisfaction at a time when concessions were not made in their favour, than now when such measures have actually taken place? Yet that very parliament, which existed at the period to which the right honourable gentleman has thought proper to have recourse, was conceived to be the national source of the most valuable blessings to Ireland. Surely he did not mean to say that, when he himself pressed forward in establishing the independence of Ireland, he was then only putting the people of that country in possession of a delusion, and that the legislature was incapable of conveying to the inhabitants of the country the enjoyment of practical liberty, The right honourable gentleman will not therefore now maintain, that, in the year 1782, he considered the parliament of Ireland so extremely defective in its frame and principles, that the nation could receive no essential benefit from the line of conduct then pursued by it; and if he will not say that, (and I am perfectly convinced he cannot say what would necessarily expose him to the charge of the most glaring inconsistency,) I am naturally led to inquire on what ground it now happens, that we are to come this day to vote an address for an alteration in the frame of that parliament, the superintendance of which we have entirely put out of our controul by the recommendation of the right honourable gentleman, and the independence of which we have unequivocally acknowledged? By what means will he make it appear, that, having renounced all power over the legislature of

Ireland, having formally abdicated the privilege which might have once existed, of enforcing any internal regulation in that country, having solemnly divested ourselves of all right, of whatever nature that right may have been, to make laws in any respect for Ireland; I say, Sir, by what particular means will he undertake to make it appear that it now remains for us to declare, what laws shall affect that country, and to dictate the precise modifications which he proposes to take place in the fixed principles of the legislature itself? In the year 1782, having given to Ireland a distinct and independent legislature, having, with every solid testimony of good faith, laid aside all pretensions to interference in the internal concerns of the nation, can any person now point out a subject to which Ireland should look with such well founded jealousy, as the subject presented to the consideration of the house by the right honourable gentleman's motion? I am ready to admit, that the address, proposed as it is, does not exactly say so; but, Sir, it conveys too much by implication, not to call for the attention of the house in a serious manner. Let us for a moment compare it with the speech of the mover, and if we proceed upon that just and reasonable ground, to which the right honourable gentleman himself can have no objection, as his speech forms the ground-work of his motion, it will in that case be found to convey what ought not to be stated in general terms, but expressed clearly and fairly.

The motion submitted to the house is, Sir, if I recollect right, for an address to his Majesty, that he will be pleased to take into his gracious consideration the present disturbed state of Ireland, and to adopt such healing and lenient measures as may restore it to tranquillity. But what can be the effect of such an address? Will it be maintained that the situation ot Ireland has not been the frequent subject of his Majesty's thoughts? Can it with the shadow of propriety be urged, that the royal mind has been at any time exempt from those considerations which may best promote the happiness of his people? What then can be the object of the address? It proposes to his Majesty the propriety of adopting measures for the restoration of the tranquillity of his